[Scale-planning] [Tech] Event Wifi Sponsored

[SCALE Planning List]

Hi Zach,

We are open to all ideas about the SCALE network. So, don't be afraid to
think outside the box. I meant to mention this earlier; most of us have
been working with SCALE for the better part of a decade, and a lot of the
work we do now is a property of - "that's how it's been done before". Many
decisions taken a decade ago were the right one for a smaller conference,
or of the sheer amount of work the implementor had at that point in time.
No one's really looked to changing things because, quite frankly, it's a
lot of effort.

Others on the list can tell you a lot more about the number of access
points, and the bandwidth usage etc. As you can gather, it's not the most
complicated network that has ever been set up, but it's not trivial either.
The hardest thing about the network is that there's about 5 days between
build up and tear down. Another complication is that even though we have
been in the PCC this year, the attrition in the team has been expensive,
and the effort feels like a new venue all over again. The last of the big
issues about the SCALE network, especially at the PCC, is that there are
two buildings in question, and we can't assume anything about access. We
might have access to the tunnel, and the roof, and the power, and the
network jacks on the wall, etc but we might not. This year, we found out,
sometimes the hard way, that we made a false assumption here and there.

Will a fully sponsored network solve all this? Probably not. However, it
certainly might help the fundamental goals of the conference - that of
providing a great show for our attendees.

Once the servers have been migrated to the new location, we can all have a
pow-wow and come up with strategies on the network in 2017. And yes, at
that time, a new Tech Chair that will be proposed.

Cheers,

Bala.
bala at socallinuxexpo.org


On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 8:22 PM, SCALE Planning List <
scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:

> At the risk of diving into the weeds, running rooms 101-105 all from a
> single switch is going to mean that you have a LOT of very long wires that
> you have to run to get from one end of the building to the other. Getting
> these wires under the soft walls exposes them to a substantial risk of
> damage.
>
> In the past, we have had one switch for each 'speaker room', so with our
> layout last year, 101/102 had one swich, 103 had a second, 104/105 had a
> third.
>
> This last year we daisy-chained the APs to save on wire runs (with mixed
> results, this is one of the things we will need to discuss this year). This
> is not an option with PoE equipment.
>
> We run far more APs per square foot of space than anyone else I have heard
> of, but we also have a much better wireless network than anyone else I have
> heard of, so I would be very leery of anyone proposing a 'normal' density
> of APs.
>
> For that matter, the facility already has their own wifi network in place.
> We pay them to turn it off, but if you are going to end up just replicating
> it, you may as well use what's built-in.
>
> David Lang
>
> On Sun, 19 Jun 2016, Zach Underwood wrote:
>
> Let's have a call. I need to get a rough count of the hardware that is
>> needed to make sure that ubnt will support such a large network, but ubnt
>> does like the idea of supporting SCALE2017 to make a case study out of it.
>>
>> Ubnt's and my hope is to make the network hardware all ubnt unifi line
>> from
>> the APs, switches and routers. This will give us full access to all POE
>> gigabit switches, 10gbit uplinks and all POE wireless AC APs. The whole
>> system will be centrally controlled by the unifi software.
>>
>> This is the example of the type of documentation that I did for SELF2016:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wb0XxbTMdrKJOujZM_3AeM6phN3wrS2AfDbGLg3jinQ/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>> Here is the start of the documentation for SCALE2016, it still needs a lot
>> of work.
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Sz8ACRvItlzsZBaIC-7Em-D8iUg2QQkteaM72F2BL-I/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 9:04 PM, David Lang <david at lang.hm> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 19 Jun 2016, SCALE Planning List wrote:
>>>
>>> I have heard back form Ubiquiti and have gotten buy in from them for
>>>
>>>> SCALE2017. I am working on the high level design for network to get idea
>>>> of
>>>> what gear we would need.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Please dont' design the network without talking to the rest of us.
>>>
>>> Here is the best map of the site that I could find
>>>
>>>> http://pasadenacenter.visitpasadena.com/facility/
>>>> I have some questions
>>>>
>>>> On the schedule from scale14x I see that ballrooms I and J was used but
>>>> cant find them on the map.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> they are above the D and E sectiosn of the ballroom
>>>
>>> For exhibit hall was hall A and B used?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> yes, everything
>>>
>>> Do i see that right that rooms 101-105 have airwalls between them?
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> they can, this last year we had 101/102 103 104/105 (three spaces)
>>>
>>> What room was used for command/staff
>>>
>>>> What area was used for noc?
>>>> You said in a early email that pre-wired drops was used to connect to
>>>> the
>>>> rooms. How many mdf/idf was used? What was the connect between them.
>>>> Is it too early or have you all picked out what rooms will be used?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> last year we were still unsure of what rooms would be used for what a
>>> month before the show.
>>>
>>> the wiring closet info is part of what we are going to have to discover.
>>> We have fiber between the two building, and copper within the buildings.
>>> We
>>> put our own equipment in all of the wiring closets (the only part of the
>>> stock network we used was the in-wall wiring and the router to the
>>> outside
>>> world. Everything else was ours.
>>>
>>> David Lang
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 10:35 AM, SCALE Planning List <
>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Zach,
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> We'd love to have you on board. I see that you have signed up to the
>>>>> tech
>>>>> list. That's a great place to start.
>>>>>
>>>>> We sure can appreciate some new blood and a different perspective to
>>>>> the
>>>>> networks at Scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bala.
>>>>> bala at socallinuxexpo.org
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:34 PM, SCALE Planning List <
>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey folks --
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sitting out here on the periphery of this discussion (mainly
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> I'm more into the audio stuff :), but I did want to throw out some
>>>>>> "scale"
>>>>>> (haha) on the networking effort, since I was involved in a good
>>>>>> portion
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> it this past year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It was interesting to me to see how it all came together, how the
>>>>>> diagrams laid out everything, where the equipment was staged, etc.
>>>>>> Clearly,
>>>>>> someone spent a lot of time planning out things, right down to the
>>>>>> length
>>>>>> of specific cable runs needed in each room on each wall. There was a
>>>>>> TON of
>>>>>> networked gear to distribute and connect. Even if (for the moment) you
>>>>>> discount the internet access points, there was still a lot of work
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> into cabling, devices, placement, testing, taping, replacing bad gear,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>> Add back in the connection of AP's and it was about double the effort
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> just mentioned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Zach, I love the idea of a vendor-supported internet option, but I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> highly recommend that you talk to some of the folks who laid out gear
>>>>>> last
>>>>>> year and get their input to understand the tremendous work effort that
>>>>>> went
>>>>>> into this on the day before the event. I have huge respect for
>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> stuck it out into the wee hours of the morning just to make sure it
>>>>>> worked
>>>>>> the next day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I came in early on Wednesday to help out. I got there in the
>>>>>> afternoon,
>>>>>> and I worked until pretty much midnight (let's say, easily, 6 hours)
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> laying out the networking for the AP's (i.e., not including the
>>>>>> cameras
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> pods). And I was one of a team of 6-8 people that night, I believe.
>>>>>> Simply
>>>>>> laying out the cabling took a while, and that's literally just laying
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> of it on the floor according to diagram. Then the AP's were placed and
>>>>>> balanced, making sure that they were under chairs, that the matching
>>>>>> network cables reached, that the correct ports were used, that they
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> near power outlets or extension cords, and so on. And finally -- what
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think was the WORST part -- comes the taping down of the cabling and
>>>>>> power
>>>>>> conduits. That took 3-4 people another maybe 2-3 hours just for that
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> aspect. And dozens of gaff tape rolls. Tape was everywhere, including
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> moveable doors and panels, along walls, under chairs, across audio
>>>>>> cables,
>>>>>> on stages, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I had to take an educated guess, I'd venture that the cabling and
>>>>>> placement of AP's probably took 45-50 man hours. Not kidding. Most of
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> were also trained network admins, so this wasn't like pulling
>>>>>> uneducated
>>>>>> folks off the street; we knew what we were doing, and it still took
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> long. Your comment about "*All that needs to be done at the show is
>>>>>> place and connect all of the hardware*" is what I'm referring to here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> about 50 hours of work for JUST THAT. Nothing else. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, while I applaud the enthusiasm and excitement (and especially the
>>>>>> volunteerism!), please keep in mind that this one single aspect of the
>>>>>> show
>>>>>> is a HUGE undertaking. If you go into this and gain a sponsor, you're
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> going to need a big crew, extremely well-placed and planned diagrams,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> an organized and inventoried stock of cabling and parts. I completely
>>>>>> agree
>>>>>> with Ilan on this -- your help is very welcome and appreciated, but
>>>>>> please
>>>>>> go into this knowing it's going to be a huge effort.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my $0.02 anyhow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bruce Bergman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-06-18 18:45, SCALE Planning List wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Zach,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Excited to see you're so passionate about building out the SCALE
>>>>>> network.
>>>>>> We'd love to have you on board on our volunteer team.  Lets sync up
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> come to consensus on a plan before reaching out to sponsors.  We have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> great deal of hardware that we own already and we should get on the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> page before we make external requests, especially since many of the
>>>>>> hardware vendors sponsor us in other ways at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll defer to the current Tech Chair, who is Bala,  on timing but lets
>>>>>> schedule a meeting soon. We're just hitting the time of year where
>>>>>> we'd
>>>>>> normally kick off our event planning for 2017.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe Bala is traveling this weekend, but I'll add you to the tech
>>>>>> list shortly and we can continue discussing how you can best help the
>>>>>> team.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for wanting to make scale awesome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Ilan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ilan Rabinovitch
>>>>>> Conference Chair
>>>>>> Southern California Linux Expo
>>>>>> 877-831-2569 x110 Voice
>>>>>> 818-442-1865 Mobile
>>>>>> ilan at linuxfests.org Email
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> Ask me about sponsorship and speaking opportunities at
>>>>>> LinuxFests.org's
>>>>>> upcoming events:
>>>>>> DevOps Days SV -  June 24-25, 2016 - Mountain View, CA
>>>>>> Texas Linux Fest - July 8-9, 2016, Austin TX
>>>>>> SCALE 15x - March 2-5, 2017 - Pasadena, CA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:50 PM, SCALE Planning List <
>>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok now I have a good idea of the size of the network and will go to
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> two sponsors to make sure I have there buy in.
>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2016 6:49 PM, "SCALE Planning List" <
>>>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016, SCALE Planning List wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh and any documents of network layout from last year.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> mostly these only exist as paper copies. With all the resignations
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Tech after last year (at least 4 significant contributers, including
>>>>>>>> both
>>>>>>>> Chairs), I am about the only one with even a reasonably good idea of
>>>>>>>> how
>>>>>>>> things were setup. Anything else would involve reverse engineering
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> from the configs. The better approach is to discuss what we want to
>>>>>>>> do with
>>>>>>>> the people interested in the design level of things (ideally in
>>>>>>>> person, a
>>>>>>>> whiteboard is really desirable for this sort of work), and then
>>>>>>>> setup
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> year's plan from that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe that I am the only person left who had the router password
>>>>>>>> for this least year, and I never logged into one.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Lang
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2016 4:35 PM, "SCALE Planning List" <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What type and speeds of 2016 internet connection?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What type of APs used in 2016?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> How many concurrent connected devices were there during 2016?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What was the cabling like? In ceiling, run along walls on the
>>>>>>>>>> floor,
>>>>>>>>>> pre-wired drops back to idf/mdf?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What type of switches were used in 2016?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can I get a cad drawing/detailed floor layout of the location?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Was the network used for things other than wifi and video
>>>>>>>>>> recording,
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> as, vendors, registration desk, staff or anything else?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What was the peak lan usage in mbps?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Total cable length ran in 2016?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 4:25 PM, SCALE Planning List <
>>>>>>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Zach,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your interest in helping with SCALE's network and
>>>>>>>>>>> streaming
>>>>>>>>>>> needs.  I'm coping a few folks that can help answer your
>>>>>>>>>>> questions,
>>>>>>>>>>> and let
>>>>>>>>>>> you know where planning stands for 2017 and 2018.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bala copied here is the interim tech chair, between him, David
>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>> replied a little bit ago, and myself we  can help share our
>>>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>> plans
>>>>>>>>>>> and let you know where we might need help.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In terms of streaming Michael Proctor, also copied here, leads
>>>>>>>>>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>> A/V
>>>>>>>>>>> team which normally run our live streaming and session
>>>>>>>>>>> recordings.
>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>> record the sessions using IP cameras, and have most of the
>>>>>>>>>>> editing
>>>>>>>>>>> automated via some software they've written. I'm sure they'd
>>>>>>>>>>> love a
>>>>>>>>>>> hand
>>>>>>>>>>> with either the automation tooling or staffing our cameras.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Looking forward to working with you on SCALE 15x.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>> Ilan Rabinovitch
>>>>>>>>>>> Conference Chair
>>>>>>>>>>> Southern California Linux Expo
>>>>>>>>>>> 877-831-2569 x110 Voice
>>>>>>>>>>> 818-442-1865 Mobile
>>>>>>>>>>> ilan at linuxfests.org Email
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>> Ask me about sponsorship and speaking opportunities at
>>>>>>>>>>> LinuxFests.org's
>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming events:
>>>>>>>>>>> DevOps Days SV -  June 24-25, 2016 - Mountain View, CA
>>>>>>>>>>> Texas Linux Fest - July 8-9, 2016, Austin TX
>>>>>>>>>>> SCALE 15x - March 2-5, 2017 - Pasadena, CA
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 7:19 AM, SCALE Planning List <
>>>>>>>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Can I get the contact info for Stu so I can ask some question of
>>>>>>>>>>> him?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 1:18 AM, SCALE Planning List <
>>>>>>>>>>>> scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2016, SCALE Planning List wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope that this is the right place for this.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asked to reach out the SCALE to see if you all are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help with live streaming, event networking, Wifi or internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> access. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just finished up doing the South East Linux Fest (SELF) Wifi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contacted by Ubiquiti (a hardware maker) and another company
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Altispeed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.altispeed.com/> about sponsoring the networking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SCALE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As an example of the event networking I have done, here is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> post I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about the SELF2016 network:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Stories/SouthEast-Linux-Fest-2016/cns-p/1590779
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is some information about what we've done in the past.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.usenix.org/conference/lisa12/technical-sessions/presentation/lang_david_wireless
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.usenix.org/publications/login/april-2013-volume-38-number-2/wireless-means-radio
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This last year we deployed about 110 access points around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> show.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Conference center provides the Internet connection, and we
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid them to allow us to run everything else.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is an opening for them to sponsor some of this. We can
>>>>>>>>>>>>> definantly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> use help setting up and running things. At the moment, we don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> know who
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be replacing Stu as the person setting up and running the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> network for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the show. Michael Proctor-Smith is going to be running the AV
>>>>>>>>>>>>> group, so he
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be continuing to spearhead the streaming effort.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The current plan is to select the new Tech Chair in a month or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> David Lang
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>>>>>>>>>>> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
>>>>>>>>>>>> advance-networking.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Zach Underwood (RHCE,RHCSA,RHCT,UACA)
>>>>>>>>>> My website <http://zachunderwood.me>
>>>>>>>>>> advance-networking.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
>>>>>>> Scale-planning at lists.linuxfests.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
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>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Scale-planning mailing list
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>>>>>> https://lists.linuxfests.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/scale-planning
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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